Episode 5 of The Wholster Real Estate Wholesaling Podcast – watch and listen here!
Episode 5 of the Wholster Real Estate Wholesaling Podcast
On Episode 5 of The Wholster Real Estate Wholesaling Podcast, we chat with Matt Derby of Derby Real Estate Development. Matt started his journey into real estate in the lending space before he transitioned into full-time flipping, wholesaling, and property management of his over 200 single family units. Hear Matts story and grab your note pad as he lets you in on what it takes to grow a portfolio of this scale.
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Alright, everybody, this is the Wholster
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Real Estate Wholesaling
podcast episode number five.
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Today we have Matt Derby
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from Derby Real Estate Investment.
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How are you?
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I'm great.
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Finally. Right. We've been trying
to get you on here for a while.
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You're a busy guy.
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I'm probably more to blame than you,
for sure.
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Well, I did drop the ball.
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Well, we won’t talk about that haha.
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But, yeah, I'm glad to have you on here.
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We've known each other for, gosh,
quite a while.
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And interestingly enough,
we kind of both started off
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in similar real estate ventures.
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We were both doing some lending
I think when we met.
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Yeah, I was doing - You were doing short
term lending because I was
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using your company to to borrow through.
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And I was doing more of kind
of traditional, conventional
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and FHA financing.
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But yeah,
I mean, oh, certainly similar stuff.
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So what,
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what I don't know is what you were doing
before you got into lending.
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What what is kind of the story that
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got you into real estate
in the first place?
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Into...
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are you including lending in that
or into actual real estate investment?
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So for me, I was interested in investment
before I got into lending,
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and I kind of saw lending as a transition
from a full time
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corporate job
completely unrelated to real estate.
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So I could get into real estate full time.
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Is that is that how it played out for you,
or was it a different kind of story?
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Well, not quite.
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I mean, I did not get into lending in
order to get into real estate investment.
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Not to say that it wasn't on my mind
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when I did, but I didn't look at it
as a stepping stone to get into it.
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But I was in the lending world for a man,
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let's just say,
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about a decade before
I started doing real estate investment.
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Oh, wow.
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So yeah, I got into lending.
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Actually, I went to school.
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I was a finance major.
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I thought I would be like a hotshot
stockbroker.
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And I got out of school
and that the dot com
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bubbles were bursting around me and
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there the job market was not great.
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So I was basically a bartender for,
I think about a year
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coming out of college and
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my father
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actually used to sell BMWs
And I think at one point he was rated
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like the number one BMW salesman
in North America or something like that.
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So. To think that
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the apple didn't fall far from the tree,
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but he said, look,
all these guys are coming in.
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They keep buying all these cars,
all these BMW cars,
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which obviously are a nicer luxury car.
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And, you know, all these guys,
they do mortgages.
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So, you know, why don't you get into it?
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Why don't you check it out? And
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I, I got into it.
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I really didn't like it.
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In fact, I kind of basically hated it.
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But obviously, at some point
it kind of stuck.
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And I figured out a way to like it
and be successful in doing it.
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And I stuck with it for a long term.
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In terms of real estate investment,
I really kind of two things.
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I had a good friend of mine
whose brother in law was buying up
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a lot of rentals right after sort of the
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the big crash of 07, 08, 09.
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And he was basically said, look,
I mean, they are just like
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giving these houses away and that kind of,
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you know, open my eyes and ears to it.
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But even then, it
still it took me a long time
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until finally I met
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my now wife
and she kind of pushed me a little bit.
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Her father knew
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just everything about construction.
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I did not come from a construction
background, so that was really the one.
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Just very,
very scary thing to me is, yeah,
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you think about real estate investment,
you obviously think about renovations.
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And I did not know, you know, I’m
a numbers guy.
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I'm a finance guy.
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I'm not a, uh, I'm not like,
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Hey, look at this junker of a house and,
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you know, know what you have to do
and all that fun stuff.
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So he really certainly helped me
get over that,
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that hump and, and, and,
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you know, sort of
got me out of the gate doing things.
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Okay.
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So you did a couple of deals with him.
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How many deals did you guys do?
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Well, I mean, technically, we didn't
I didn't really do it with him.
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I just, the first couple of deals
I found on MLS and
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really just
kind of went in optimistically,
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hoping that it would work out
on some level because, again,
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between him and my wife, they were like,
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yeah, you know, I kind of know what to do.
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And I was like, Well, great.
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I know nothing what to do, except
I know about, you know, financing that.
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So obviously that was
was kind of taken care of.
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But it's like, all right, you know,
let's just we're going to just dive
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into the water headfirst
and kind of hope it works out.
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He really helped me a lot
on the first couple projects
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and obviously learned a lot.
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And I, I didn't
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the first two were so cumbersome.
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They they probably between
the two of them took up almost two years.
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So, uh oh. Actually, the second one.
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So after that, it was kind of like,
all right, you know, it's,
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it's kind of time to go out on my own
and kind of
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let him retire from,
you know, showing me the ropes.
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Right.
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Now, those those first two, did
they have just very extensive rehabs
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or did you run into some major issues
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along the way?
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Yes. No, the first one
was went really pretty smoothly.
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There was really no major hiccups.
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Kind of your typical stuff
that comes up during a renovation but,
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it was a smaller renovation.
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And we actually
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between my father in law, my wife
and myself, we did about 75% of it.
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I mean, he you know, he didn't literally
show me what was needed.
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He also showed us how to do it,
if not doing a lot by himself.
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I mean, my wife and I had
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we weren't married at the time,
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but we had just met, at even
like when we went to
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wherever we would
go, you know, if we were in Miami,
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sitting by the pool
having drinks for a weekend.
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My father in law
was was at the house at this house
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at least Saturday and Sunday from 8 a.m.
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until probably 5 p.m., just,
you know, working his butt off
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for us.
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And we spent a lot of weekends
in there as well.
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So the first one - lighter rehab,
was a really good kind of starter project,
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if you will,
And so we got that knocked out.
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It sold relatively smoothly
and quickly and
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really kind of swung
for the fences on the second one,
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it was like just a monster monster.
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I mean, you know, full
well a full gut rehab down in Canton, and,
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uh, I just - where
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was - it was way more ,
I bit off way more than I could chew.
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And we got through it.
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But, you know, I, I, I got quickly
got into the project and realized that
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if we were going to do it, all hands
on, it was going to take us three years
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to fix this house.
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And plus we just needed
subcontractors like
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for permitting and other issues.
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You know, I'm not going to rewire
a whole house. So.
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So yeah, the second one was, took
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probably close to 18 months
from start to finish.
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That's a long time.
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Did you,
hopefully didn't use hard money for that.
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No, it was it was a lot of cash.
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It was good in the sense that I think we
actually made a little bit of money on it,
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even with that that holding time, which
is, you know, pretty, pretty unbelievable.
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But at the same time,
I was really handcuffed because pretty
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much all of the money that I had to invest
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was tied up in this house, in this
this house.
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So I would see all these opportunities
and stuff
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that would come up
and especially towards the end,
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you know, when it was like,
all right, I've kind of I've
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made it to the other side of the mountain,
I'm kinda, you know, I'm at a point
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at a point where we're pretty close
to wrapping this thing up.
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I still could not move on to a subsequent
project
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because, again,
I just had all that money tied up.
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Right?
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Yeah, that can get challenging,
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especially in an environment
where it might be difficult to refinance.
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I don't know what I don't know
what the timeframe is here at this point
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in your story, but it could have been
maybe in those sorts of times.
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So as you
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as you grew this flipping business,
you did start to transition into rentals.
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As I understand.
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I did, yes.
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Yeah, I have told the story a lot.
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I was was doing these flips
that was to give you a feel for the time.
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I think
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the first flip got done in either
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it was 2013 or 14.
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I really,
I guess I should probably know that.
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But when I started
getting into rentals and
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I was kind of under renovating them,
I was really I mean,
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you talk about the definition
of lipstick on a pig.
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I was just kind of doing the bare minimum.
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And you hear a lot
from maybe a lot of wholesalers.
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There's probably a lot of jokes
or phrases out there.
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But, you know, was just you know,
you don't need to do a whole lot.
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And I really took that,
you know, to heart.
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And I didn't do a whole lot
and I didn't do enough.
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So when I started
kind of building a portfolio,
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I quickly just got
bamboozled with all kinds of
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just maintenance and
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just a lot of headaches.
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And I actually basically, I so I started
and then I actually stopped
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because it was like, man, these,
these five or six rentals that I have
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are just costing me
boatloads and boatloads of money.
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It's like this is just never stopping,
you know, it's like we're, we're,
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you know, the levee just the water
just keeps keeps running out.
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And and the water was our bank
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account being cleaned out
month over month.
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So and then I
so I did some more renovations
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on on the flip side and
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kind of came back to it one day and said,
you know what I caught
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a really failed forward,
as the saying goes the first time.
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But I have a little bit
more experience under my belt now
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and I'm really going to kind of
just give it a second shot
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and I'm just not going to give up and I'm
probably going to make more mistakes
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and I'm just going to keep doing it
until I really have a good grasp on it.
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And that's,
you know, basically what I did.
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I just kind of kept going, kept kept
fighting through the headaches and
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the small nightmares and,
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you know, and worked it all out.
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So what was the biggest shift
that you had about
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when you first started buying rentals to
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I guess, when you decided
that you were going to keep going?
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What did you change?
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Well, I started renovating things
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more diligently
that that was one of the main things.
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You know,
I realized that 80 year old plumbing
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does not last much longer than 80 years,
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and 30 year old furnaces
don't last much longer
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than 30 year old furnaces and 30 year
old roofs don't you know.
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They hardly last 20 years, actually.
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I said some of those hardly last 20 years.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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I mean, especially depending on
what kind of roof
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it is. But.
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And also I, I didn't really,
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you know, we met
because you were doing hard money and I,
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when I first kind of started things,
even the first two flips I used,
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the first
one I used conventional financing on,
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and then the second one I was cash.
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Like I said, with some
I had some private money raised in there
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as well at very low rates, fortunately.
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But that that also, you know,
the financing part of it,
00;14;18;13 - 00;14;21;01
realizing
that I could buy these properties
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with little to no money
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in the deal
also was a total game changer for me.
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It was like oh wow, I can
I can buy a house with
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you know, three, five,
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$10,000 during closing where
I'm coming from, the traditional,
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uh, lending world where it's like,
Oh, yeah,
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you know,
you need 20% to, to put down on a rental,
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maybe not a primary residence,
but on a rental you need 20, 25% down.
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So again, it was just the renovating
and the financing and it was like,
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wow, I can I can do more with less
in terms of capital.
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Right.
00;15;03;06 - 00;15;06;11
As long as you can get them done
in, you know, less than 18 months,
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you know, So don't want to hold hard money
for that long.
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So what does your business
look like today?
00;15;13;07 - 00;15;16;25
Where did
where did all that flipping take you.
00;15;19;04 - 00;15;23;02
Of the
flipping really didn't do much for me.
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It took off just about all of my my hair,
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as you can see, kind of put some some
some bags under my eyes.
00;15;31;23 - 00;15;35;15
But yeah, no,
I kind of stopped doing that. I,
00;15;36;22 - 00;15;39;16
I, I've done some flips.
00;15;39;16 - 00;15;42;18
I did a couple last year, mainly
because the market was just,
00;15;43;01 - 00;15;46;20
you know, I told everybody
that we may never see a market
00;15;47;05 - 00;15;49;23
like this ever again,
00;15;49;23 - 00;15;54;15
but I at one point I just grew
very tiresome of doing the flips.
00;15;54;15 - 00;15;58;06
It just kinda, there's just a lot
that goes into them.
00;15;58;06 - 00;16;02;07
And I quickly really liked doing the
the rentals.
00;16;02;07 - 00;16;03;13
They were just
00;16;04;09 - 00;16;07;06
easier to, to get done.
00;16;07;06 - 00;16;10;10
We like to put out a good product
with the rentals,
00;16;10;19 - 00;16;13;17
but you still just don't
have to go to the extremes
00;16;13;17 - 00;16;17;11
that you do with with flips
and even some on the flips.
00;16;17;11 - 00;16;20;24
I was probably not renovating them
to the level that I should have.
00;16;20;24 - 00;16;23;18
It was like,
Oh yeah, we can keep that, keep that, and
00;16;25;01 - 00;16;27;22
you know, that, that probably ended up
actually cause
00;16;27;24 - 00;16;28;29
I thought it was saving me money,
00;16;28;29 - 00;16;32;00
but it probably cost me money because
the homes would have sold for a lot more.
00;16;32;23 - 00;16;35;04
But as far as the here and now goes,
00;16;35;22 - 00;16;39;21
I have, uh, I'm in my office in Columbia.
00;16;39;21 - 00;16;45;02
I have three employees
that work with me in my office.
00;16;45;18 - 00;16;48;07
I have an acquisitions
00;16;48;14 - 00;16;51;29
agent or acquisitions guy
that that works remotely.
00;16;53;00 - 00;16;55;05
And then obviously a slew of contractors
00;16;55;05 - 00;16;58;20
that work on the houses day
in and day out.
00;16;59;23 - 00;17;02;13
We actually just broke
00;17;02;13 - 00;17;06;06
the 200 property, well, one in the same.
00;17;06;06 - 00;17;09;23
I was going to say 200 unit,
they're all one unit properties.
00;17;09;23 - 00;17;13;05
So we just eclipsed
00;17;13;05 - 00;17;16;18
the 200 mark.
00;17;16;18 - 00;17;18;29
I actually closed on one today
before the podcast.
00;17;18;29 - 00;17;20;29
I think that was like 203. So.
00;17;21;13 - 00;17;22;21
Wow, Congratulations.
00;17;22;21 - 00;17;24;04
Yeah, Yeah. Thank you. It's
00;17;27;13 - 00;17;30;06
it's been a lot, I guess.
00;17;30;06 - 00;17;30;19
Yeah.
00;17;30;19 - 00;17;34;01
To put it simply,
but so yeah, I mean, really,
00;17;34;06 - 00;17;37;02
we're we're still doing some assignments.
00;17;37;02 - 00;17;39;14
We talked about it
before we kind of got going.
00;17;40;11 - 00;17;42;20
I was doing a lot of marketing.
00;17;42;20 - 00;17;46;24
I've kind of dialed that back,
but we are still doing some assignments
00;17;47;04 - 00;17;52;09
from time to time, but mainly we're
just kind of growing the portfolio.
00;17;52;19 - 00;17;56;10
I have in-house property management,
which is what
00;17;56;10 - 00;18;00;23
some of my employees help me out with
and you know,
00;18;00;23 - 00;18;03;28
we'll probably buy,
00;18;04;03 - 00;18;05;16
I would say
00;18;05;16 - 00;18;09;01
we've bought right around 70 houses
the last two years
00;18;09;01 - 00;18;13;08
and I think we'll probably do, especially
if rates continue to trend down.
00;18;13;08 - 00;18;16;14
I think we'll probably do around
that number this year.
00;18;16;14 - 00;18;19;15
I thought that we would do a lot
less last year when rates started
00;18;19;15 - 00;18;23;12
getting real funky
and and crazy on us, but
00;18;24;16 - 00;18;25;20
we still
00;18;26;07 - 00;18;27;03
bought a lot.
00;18;27;03 - 00;18;31;23
And so
I think we'll probably end the year,
00;18;31;23 - 00;18;34;29
probably in the 265-270 range.
00;18;36;04 - 00;18;37;29
Do you see any end to that?
00;18;37;29 - 00;18;40;16
Where are you going? What are your goals?
00;18;40;16 - 00;18;42;23
Yeah, that's something that
00;18;42;24 - 00;18;45;24
admittedly
I guess you could say I struggle with
00;18;46;15 - 00;18;53;22
because I, I guess I kind of talk
out of both sides of my mouth on it.
00;18;53;22 - 00;18;56;24
I, I love setting goals.
00;18;57;16 - 00;18;57;24
Uh Huh.
00;18;57;25 - 00;19;02;26
And because I think it really is
kind of most people's kind of North Star,
00;19;02;26 - 00;19;09;27
it's kind of like their motivator
when they wake up in the morning.
00;19;09;27 - 00;19;10;06
Yeah.
00;19;10;06 - 00;19;15;06
Actually at one point I wanted to be,
I think it was at like 206 or 209
00;19;15;06 - 00;19;18;29
and I'll be there within 30 days
and I'm not
00;19;19;04 - 00;19;24;02
you know, I'm not hanging it up there.
00;19;24;02 - 00;19;27;06
So the the answer is, I don't know,
00;19;28;21 - 00;19;31;16
because I just, I at the same time,
00;19;31;16 - 00;19;36;16
I think the goals are, you know, you set
goals well, I want to be at 50 units.
00;19;36;16 - 00;19;41;01
I want to be out at 100 units, you know,
100 for me, it was like a big milestone,
00;19;42;03 - 00;19;43;16
as it should be there.
00;19;43;16 - 00;19;46;14
There's a lot
that goes into buying 100 houses
00;19;46;14 - 00;19;49;21
and renovating most,
if not all of them. Yep.
00;19;50;02 - 00;19;52;04
But I can't even tell you what
00;19;52;04 - 00;19;55;04
the only reason that I know what house was
the 200th one
00;19;55;04 - 00;19;58;08
is because a few people kept asking me,
When are you going to be at 200?
00;19;58;08 - 00;19;59;07
When are you going to be at 200?
00;20;00;11 - 00;20;03;02
So and also, ironically,
00;20;03;02 - 00;20;06;28
I did count them at the end of last year,
and that was I was at like 198.
00;20;06;28 - 00;20;14;02
So I was like, okay, well, the second or
third house I buy will be the 200th. So.
00;20;14;20 - 00;20;17;25
So yeah, you know, I don't, I don't know
00;20;17;25 - 00;20;21;17
kind of where
that, that, that train stops, so to speak
00;20;22;28 - 00;20;26;14
because I could say, well, 500.
00;20;27;01 - 00;20;30;21
But I think that it's just unrealistic
00;20;31;08 - 00;20;34;28
for me to hit a certain number
and wake up that day
00;20;34;28 - 00;20;38;19
or the next day and say, okay, I'm
throwing in the towel, I'm done
00;20;39;27 - 00;20;42;09
the way I think that I kind of envision it
00;20;42;09 - 00;20;46;13
It is more of a just kind of a random
it might be just one
00;20;46;13 - 00;20;49;18
random event where I just kind of wake up
one day and say, you know what,
00;20;50;24 - 00;20;52;07
I'm I'm done.
00;20;52;07 - 00;20;55;01
I don't you know, I don't need more.
00;20;55;02 - 00;20;56;18
I don't I know.
00;20;56;18 - 00;20;59;14
Full, full well,
I don't really need more than what
00;20;59;14 - 00;21;04;10
I have right now, but I once it becomes
kind of more of a chore
00;21;04;10 - 00;21;07;00
and more of a stressor
and more of a headache to do it,
00;21;07;22 - 00;21;10;14
then maybe again,
I wake up one day and say, You know what?
00;21;10;15 - 00;21;14;03
I'm I just kind of
I think now is is the time.
00;21;14;03 - 00;21;17;22
And I don't know whether that happens
next month, next year or,
00;21;18;00 - 00;21;19;23
you know, ten years down the road. So
00;21;21;08 - 00;21;23;08
I think
that, you know, not to kind of start
00;21;23;08 - 00;21;26;11
getting real deep and philosophical,
but I think that
00;21;28;24 - 00;21;31;03
defining where you want to be
00;21;31;03 - 00;21;34;21
and actually adhering to it
and sticking to it is
00;21;36;03 - 00;21;37;04
it's a gift and a curse.
00;21;37;04 - 00;21;39;05
It's it's
one of the toughest things to do.
00;21;40;07 - 00;21;42;28
It's a gift in the sense that, you know,
people want to keep pushing
00;21;42;28 - 00;21;46;07
and pushing and doing more
and a growing and expanding,
00;21;47;01 - 00;21;51;23
but also, you know, you you're
you're kind of chasing this
00;21;52;00 - 00;21;55;25
this never ending
end of the road, you know?
00;21;55;25 - 00;22;00;10
So that's why I think you hear also that,
you know, you've got to love the journey.
00;22;00;10 - 00;22;01;06
And that's what I'm saying.
00;22;01;06 - 00;22;04;09
That's essentially what I'm saying
when I stop loving the journey,
00;22;04;09 - 00;22;06;29
because there's no
there is no end of the race.
00;22;06;29 - 00;22;10;06
There is no,
you know, magic Top of the mountain.
00;22;11;05 - 00;22;12;11
I actually posted something
00;22;12;11 - 00;22;15;21
on Facebook the other day,
which I think you had commented on.
00;22;15;21 - 00;22;19;25
You know, people think, oh, well,
when I have 100 houses, when I have 200,
00;22;19;26 - 00;22;20;25
when I have 500 houses,
00;22;20;25 - 00;22;23;02
I'm just going to be happy
and it's just going to be, you know,
00;22;23;28 - 00;22;25;14
rainbows and unicorns.
00;22;25;14 - 00;22;29;10
It's just it's
not the way that things happen.
00;22;29;21 - 00;22;30;22
You know,
00;22;31;11 - 00;22;33;13
if anything, things get more hectic.
00;22;34;00 - 00;22;37;25
You know, I could make an argument that,
hey, your best bet is to buy
00;22;37;25 - 00;22;41;19
25 houses and try and get them all
free and clear. And,
00;22;42;20 - 00;22;44;24
you know, you'll have a lot less
00;22;46;05 - 00;22;50;04
overhead and tenants
and just overall stuff
00;22;50;04 - 00;22;53;25
to deal with than 200 houses with,
00;22;54;14 - 00;22;57;05
you know, debt and 200 tenants on it.
00;22;57;05 - 00;23;01;07
So again, it's a it's a very,
00;23;01;16 - 00;23;03;23
very tricky question to answer.
00;23;04;07 - 00;23;09;00
In my head, owning
200 units is just what it takes to get
00;23;09;00 - 00;23;12;28
there is not something that you, you
and you see anyone
00;23;12;28 - 00;23;16;25
often achieve, especially, you know,
single family, individual houses.
00;23;18;08 - 00;23;21;17
So you've
accomplished a lot, it sounds like
00;23;21;26 - 00;23;26;21
the systems are still working,
things are going pretty smoothly.
00;23;26;21 - 00;23;29;14
Do you ever find yourself
getting distracted like, well, maybe I'll
00;23;30;07 - 00;23;34;09
maybe I want to try this other thing?
00;23;34;09 - 00;23;40;02
Well, I know, you know, full
well I got into the the e-commerce space
00;23;40;02 - 00;23;44;14
and, you know,
because I was told that it was this ultra
00;23;44;14 - 00;23;47;06
passive way to, you know, be making
00;23;48;09 - 00;23;50;21
5000 bucks a month or whatever. Yeah.
00;23;50;23 - 00;23;54;05
The pipe dream was there.
00;23;54;05 - 00;23;57;14
So, yeah,
I mean, you know, it's it's not to say
00;23;57;14 - 00;24;00;16
that I don't look at some other stuff.
00;24;00;16 - 00;24;02;20
I didn’t really
kind of get hooked in by crypto.
00;24;02;20 - 00;24;07;02
I bought a very, a little bit of it
and I haven't even looked at my,
00;24;07;02 - 00;24;10;24
my balance
but I it's that that that's probably about
00;24;10;24 - 00;24;14;28
80% gone for that the few thousand
bucks that I threw at it. But
00;24;16;14 - 00;24;16;23
you know
00;24;16;23 - 00;24;19;26
obviously for people in real estate
I think that
00;24;19;29 - 00;24;23;24
the the shiny object is you know, doing
00;24;23;24 - 00;24;26;24
these bigger deals, multifamily
00;24;27;25 - 00;24;30;21
stuff like that, which
00;24;31;02 - 00;24;33;28
I think there are some some legitimate
00;24;36;01 - 00;24;39;21
reasons why people people say that,
you know, it is
00;24;39;29 - 00;24;43;11
it is easier to deal with 100 people
under one roof
00;24;43;28 - 00;24;48;28
than it is 100 people over a hundred under
100 roofs that, you know, could be 100
00;24;48;28 - 00;24;51;15
miles, one might be a hundred miles
from one or the other.
00;24;53;04 - 00;24;57;07
But, you know,
but I at the end of the day,
00;24;57;08 - 00;25;02;16
as I kind of grow older,
I'm kind of getting more comfortable
00;25;02;16 - 00;25;05;25
in my skin in the sense that you know,
what I'm doing
00;25;05;25 - 00;25;08;17
right now, it works for me.
00;25;09;00 - 00;25;12;19
I am in the process of launching
00;25;13;15 - 00;25;17;13
a what a hopefully will be actually,
you know,
00;25;17;21 - 00;25;20;16
getting back
to kind of how we started the show,
00;25;20;25 - 00;25;25;07
launching what hopefully
will be a rather large lending platform.
00;25;26;26 - 00;25;30;21
But we're
really in the infancy of of that.
00;25;30;21 - 00;25;33;01
And so
00;25;33;03 - 00;25;35;26
I guess that would be it, you know
00;25;35;26 - 00;25;38;00
but right now I have the
00;25;38;00 - 00;25;41;22
the systems and the people are
00;25;43;01 - 00;25;46;07
built to
to keep doing the single family stuff.
00;25;46;07 - 00;25;48;22
So again, I'm going to keep doing it until
00;25;50;01 - 00;25;52;12
I feel otherwise about it.
00;25;52;12 - 00;25;55;18
So speaking of systems,
it certainly is going to take
00;25;55;18 - 00;25;58;02
a lot of systems
to get to that kind of scale.
00;25;58;20 - 00;26;03;06
What do you feel like
has been the most important system
00;26;03;06 - 00;26;09;21
you've built to get there?
00;26;09;21 - 00;26;13;03
Man I will tell you, unfortunately,
00;26;13;03 - 00;26;16;11
I don't have this like golden nugget, eye
opening
00;26;17;06 - 00;26;19;17
secret system of sorts
00;26;19;17 - 00;26;23;03
that, you know, really catapulted me
00;26;23;03 - 00;26;27;21
from 50 to 150 units.
00;26;27;21 - 00;26;30;22
I was the classic solopreneur
00;26;31;24 - 00;26;34;13
that I didn't really even hire
00;26;34;14 - 00;26;37;22
anybody
until I was at like 70 or 80 units.
00;26;37;22 - 00;26;39;15
And I was doing business.
00;26;39;15 - 00;26;44;14
Like basically off the top of my mind,
you know, I kind of had this to do list
00;26;44;14 - 00;26;47;24
that was, you know, as good as my
my memory would serve me.
00;26;48;17 - 00;26;49;23
I had no systems,
00;26;51;10 - 00;26;53;23
really. So
00;26;53;23 - 00;26;57;10
the most magic occurred for me hands down.
00;26;57;10 - 00;27;00;21
When I started hiring people,
you know, people
00;27;02;02 - 00;27;04;29
and delegating
00;27;04;29 - 00;27;08;18
will take you,
I think, a lot further than systems.
00;27;08;18 - 00;27;13;08
And also I'm just not a super
like kind of tech
00;27;13;08 - 00;27;17;16
oriented person, I guess, if you will.
00;27;17;16 - 00;27;21;07
I love it, You know, if
and when it performs as it should.
00;27;21;08 - 00;27;25;19
I love things that are automated
and anything that makes life
00;27;26;15 - 00;27;29;21
more just simpler.
00;27;29;21 - 00;27;31;25
So but I just
00;27;31;25 - 00;27;35;23
don't have like even even spreadsheets,
you know, I see these people
00;27;35;23 - 00;27;40;02
build out these spreadsheets and I'm like,
how in the world do you even do that?
00;27;40;06 - 00;27;41;08
You know?
00;27;41;29 - 00;27;44;07
And again, they're great, but
00;27;45;24 - 00;27;48;29
again,
you know, things really, really took off.
00;27;48;29 - 00;27;52;05
I think that I went
from buying like 35 houses
00;27;53;06 - 00;27;56;09
until I hired my my first employee.
00;27;56;09 - 00;27;58;18
And I literally went for like buying
35 houses
00;27;58;18 - 00;28;01;18
the year prior to like 70,
it literally doubled
00;28;03;00 - 00;28;05;03
the year that she came on board.
00;28;05;22 - 00;28;08;06
So, I mean,
00;28;08;06 - 00;28;12;08
I would tell people really,
if anything, I would kind of almost say
00;28;12;08 - 00;28;16;02
in terms of systems, hey,
I mean, Google Doc
00;28;16;03 - 00;28;21;07
Docs, Google sheets, I mean, you know,
you can run a pretty
00;28;21;07 - 00;28;22;22
I mean, even to this day,
00;28;22;22 - 00;28;26;19
as much as I don't love the fact
that we have like 22 spreadsheets,
00;28;26;27 - 00;28;29;29
you know, that that we kind of work
through.
00;28;29;29 - 00;28;33;23
But, you know, I get it
00;28;34;03 - 00;28;36;26
just I'm being very repetitive by it.
00;28;37;27 - 00;28;42;06
But things really just shot forward
when I started hiring people.
00;28;42;06 - 00;28;43;00
And maybe that's me.
00;28;43;00 - 00;28;47;25
I because I didn't set up this any systems
as I should have.
00;28;47;25 - 00;28;48;20
That's the other thing too.
00;28;48;20 - 00;28;51;28
It's not really about what system
if I could go back and do it
00;28;51;28 - 00;28;55;14
all over again,
even if when it was just myself, set up
00;28;56;13 - 00;28;58;18
a property management software,
00;28;58;18 - 00;29;03;13
you know, organize,
get organized and and again,
00;29;03;14 - 00;29;07;13
it doesn't have to be a system
with all these fancy bells and whistles.
00;29;07;13 - 00;29;09;29
Just, you know, again, utilize Google,
00;29;10;17 - 00;29;13;24
Google Docs, Google sheets
00;29;13;24 - 00;29;17;14
and and start there.
00;29;17;14 - 00;29;20;26
And, you know, as you grow,
you kind of figure out what you need.
00;29;22;09 - 00;29;24;04
That makes a lot of sense
00;29;24;04 - 00;29;28;15
communication, record
keeping, those sorts of things.
00;29;28;15 - 00;29;32;16
When you brought on that first employee,
what was their
00;29;33;11 - 00;29;36;03
was sort of their their role?
00;29;36;19 - 00;29;40;20
Well,
my first hire was supposed to be sort
00;29;40;20 - 00;29;44;28
of an admin role, kind of,
00;29;46;22 - 00;29;48;14
I guess, a catch all for whatever
00;29;48;14 - 00;29;51;13
I wanted to take off my plate,
including the tenants.
00;29;52;11 - 00;29;55;04
And it was right around
00;29;56;14 - 00;29;58;21
January 2020 is when I kind of
00;29;59;29 - 00;30;01;15
made the leap from
00;30;02;14 - 00;30;05;05
hiring and really ramping up
00;30;05;05 - 00;30;08;03
and doing consistent marketing.
00;30;09;10 - 00;30;11;19
So I hired
00;30;11;19 - 00;30;16;23
somebody as an admin,
but I quickly started doing marketing and,
00;30;16;23 - 00;30;21;10
and he had some experience
doing marketing and acquisitions.
00;30;22;01 - 00;30;25;10
So he kind of quickly,
00;30;26;11 - 00;30;27;08
you know,
00;30;27;26 - 00;30;30;16
grew towards that and wanted to really do
that.
00;30;30;16 - 00;30;35;06
And also, you know, I was paying him
commission so there was more money for it
00;30;35;17 - 00;30;39;03
for him in doing that.
00;30;39;03 - 00;30;42;23
So again, it was kind of an admin
00;30;42;23 - 00;30;44;28
that quickly turned
00;30;45;27 - 00;30;48;00
into an acquisitions person
00;30;48;00 - 00;30;53;16
and then I hired a true
kind of office manager that was 2020.
00;30;53;22 - 00;30;59;12
Obviously COVID just, you know, knocked us
in the side of the face.
00;30;59;12 - 00;31;03;25
In spring of 2020,
I brought on who is my office manager
00;31;04;10 - 00;31;07;11
to this day in early 2021,
00;31;07;11 - 00;31;10;23
and that's who
I was referencing, by the way,
00;31;10;29 - 00;31;15;14
when she came on and started
just kind of cleaning everything up,
00;31;17;04 - 00;31;17;12
you know,
00;31;17;12 - 00;31;21;22
bookkeeping being one of them, just just,
you know, took over paying them.
00;31;21;22 - 00;31;27;11
It just took over a ton of tasks off
of my end because because the first hire
00;31;27;20 - 00;31;30;10
he started doing acquisitions
and then it was
00;31;31;05 - 00;31;33;29
it actually kind of put more on my plate
because I still had to do
00;31;33;29 - 00;31;37;23
all the stuff that I was doing, but
I still had to worry about doing marketing
00;31;37;23 - 00;31;43;01
and kind of overseeing him
in the acquisitions role of things.
00;31;43;01 - 00;31;48;25
So kind of a, you know,
an assistant office manager,
00;31;48;26 - 00;31;51;20
there's there's a ton of different titles
you can come up with.
00;31;52;23 - 00;31;56;28
Okay, let's shift gears a little bit.
00;31;56;28 - 00;31;59;01
Outside of real estate.
00;31;59;01 - 00;32;01;04
I know that you have sort of this,
00;32;01;25 - 00;32;06;28
uh, you like to give back, let's say.
00;32;08;02 - 00;32;09;02
Can you tell us a little bit
00;32;09;02 - 00;32;12;03
about how you've how
you've been giving back to the community?
00;32;13;10 - 00;32;17;07
Yeah, sure thing. So
00;32;17;21 - 00;32;19;28
my, my wife,
00;32;19;28 - 00;32;22;26
I guess I kind of owe
00;32;23;04 - 00;32;25;07
what we're sitting here
talking through it.
00;32;25;07 - 00;32;29;11
I owe my wife maybe more credit
00;32;30;04 - 00;32;32;27
or gratefulness or
00;32;34;24 - 00;32;38;02
than I guess
I kind of give her, because, again,
00;32;38;02 - 00;32;44;14
she was the one who kind of nudged me
into getting into real estate investment.
00;32;44;14 - 00;32;47;01
And she also was kind of the Kickstarter
for doing
00;32;48;00 - 00;32;51;00
these charity events
that we're doing these days.
00;32;51;13 - 00;32;53;05
And so
00;32;53;19 - 00;32;56;20
a couple of years ago,
I think it was around the holidays,
00;32;56;20 - 00;32;59;24
I think everybody kind of tends
to be a little bit more charitable
00;33;01;03 - 00;33;03;05
just by nature around the holidays.
00;33;03;05 - 00;33;05;06
And we were kind of thinking of like,
you know what?
00;33;05;06 - 00;33;07;11
What can we do? What what can we do?
00;33;07;25 - 00;33;11;01
And we were just thinking about
like kind of like a local,
00;33;11;01 - 00;33;17;02
I think it was a toy drive, but something
that to help out schools locally.
00;33;18;02 - 00;33;22;13
And it just kind of grew from we started
00;33;23;10 - 00;33;25;25
we wanted to keep it
00;33;25;25 - 00;33;28;12
on a local level in terms of the charity.
00;33;29;17 - 00;33;32;21
We're kind of asking around and
00;33;32;21 - 00;33;35;13
we had a lot of people
saying a lot of great stuff
00;33;35;13 - 00;33;38;27
about this charity, Casey Cares
who is local.
00;33;39;03 - 00;33;41;28
There are Colombia,
just like I said, my office was.
00;33;42;28 - 00;33;45;09
So we got linked up with them and
00;33;46;27 - 00;33;49;01
we we started doing
00;33;49;01 - 00;33;51;24
at first we did like a charity Happy Hour,
00;33;52;16 - 00;33;55;17
and I'm a big golfer, so
00;33;57;02 - 00;33;59;09
we started last May.
00;33;59;09 - 00;34;04;16
We did our first charity
outing as well. So.
00;34;05;22 - 00;34;08;10
So yeah, I mean, you know, that's we,
00;34;08;20 - 00;34;12;15
we may even start our own charity.
00;34;12;15 - 00;34;14;15
My wife may kind of
00;34;16;03 - 00;34;18;00
get into that and
00;34;18;00 - 00;34;21;14
we may start our own thing here.
00;34;21;14 - 00;34;24;18
But either way,
you know, we we love doing the events,
00;34;26;00 - 00;34;28;17
admittedly, you know, to kind of
be an open book.
00;34;28;17 - 00;34;31;26
I just kind of woke up one day and
00;34;33;14 - 00;34;39;10
I realized that, like I had really failed
a lot in terms of just giving back.
00;34;39;10 - 00;34;43;16
You know, there's you say it
and you hear it.
00;34;43;25 - 00;34;48;03
And I think it's something that, you know,
it's it's very easy to say.
00;34;48;05 - 00;34;51;06
But yeah, you've got to really
00;34;52;14 - 00;34;54;22
it doesn't kind of hit hard
as much as it should.
00;34;54;22 - 00;34;57;21
There's just a lot of people
that are not as privileged
00;34;57;21 - 00;35;01;21
and that really do
kind of need help out there.
00;35;01;21 - 00;35;05;24
And I just kind of was not doing enough to
to to give back.
00;35;05;24 - 00;35;07;28
You know, I'm very fortunate
00;35;10;01 - 00;35;13;00
in a lot of different aspects of my life.
00;35;13;00 - 00;35;17;01
And it was like, you know, man,
there's you also hear in real estate
00;35;17;01 - 00;35;20;07
a lot of like leaving a legacy
and all this other stuff and
00;35;23;09 - 00;35;24;23
yeah, I mean,
00;35;24;23 - 00;35;29;02
you know, it's great that you can kind of
pass down real estate from,
00;35;29;20 - 00;35;34;00
you know, myself to my children and or,
you know, whoever it might be.
00;35;34;00 - 00;35;37;08
But, you know,
00;35;37;08 - 00;35;41;03
I kind of just wanted to do more to
to to kind of give back.
00;35;41;03 - 00;35;43;06
And my wife and I both did, obviously.
00;35;43;06 - 00;35;45;00
So we got started with that.
00;35;45;00 - 00;35;47;03
And we've been kind of
rocking and rolling.
00;35;47;15 - 00;35;51;14
We're actually meeting
we want to kind of just like real estate,
00;35;51;14 - 00;35;55;03
you know, we we want to be doing
bigger and better events.
00;35;55;03 - 00;35;57;28
We're actually meeting in a couple weeks
to figure out
00;35;59;06 - 00;36;01;26
how we can do that, how we can
00;36;01;26 - 00;36;04;13
not necessarily the format of the events.
00;36;04;13 - 00;36;08;05
We're still going to keep doing
the one happy hour.
00;36;08;05 - 00;36;10;18
We kind of like it to be a little bit
more formal
00;36;10;18 - 00;36;14;10
than a happy hour,
not not a black tie event.
00;36;14;10 - 00;36;18;17
But, you know, something that that people
think of as more than just a happy hour.
00;36;18;17 - 00;36;22;01
And we're already signed up to do that.
00;36;22;01 - 00;36;24;29
The golf outing at the end of May.
00;36;24;29 - 00;36;29;00
But yeah, it's something we want to do
more, not necessarily do more,
00;36;29;00 - 00;36;32;27
but we want to we want to just be able to
to that that that big check that
00;36;32;28 - 00;36;35;17
that goes to the charity
or whatever that charity is.
00;36;35;17 - 00;36;38;11
We want to grow that over time.
00;36;39;15 - 00;36;40;11
But it's it's
00;36;40;11 - 00;36;44;09
really fulfilling stuff,
you know and again,
00;36;44;09 - 00;36;48;04
I wasn't really doing much of it at all
outside of, you know, maybe, okay,
00;36;48;05 - 00;36;52;03
here's a 20 dollar donation
here, here and there. But,
00;36;53;12 - 00;36;56;03
you know, to do something and,
00;36;57;13 - 00;36;59;18
you know, to to hand over ten,
00;36;59;18 - 00;37;03;06
$20,000 to a charity,
00;37;03;06 - 00;37;04;17
it just
00;37;04;18 - 00;37;09;15
it it's it's a lot different and more
fulfilling of a feeling than saying
00;37;09;22 - 00;37;13;04
even saying, hey, I bought my 200th house
It it really is.
00;37;13;20 - 00;37;16;08
Right
Yeah I think we could all do probably do
00;37;16;08 - 00;37;18;14
a little bit more of that, myself
included.
00;37;18;14 - 00;37;21;06
Um did, did we talk about what
00;37;21;06 - 00;37;23;21
what Casey Cares does exactly?
00;37;24;11 - 00;37;26;14
What type of organization are they?
00;37;26;14 - 00;37;30;19
Casey Cares at their core they help out
00;37;32;09 - 00;37;36;20
children that are going through
health issues essentially.
00;37;37;02 - 00;37;40;29
Okay mainly cancer
most of which are terminal it's
00;37;41;12 - 00;37;44;05
they're kind of a I guess,
00;37;44;05 - 00;37;47;24
a local version
of like a Make-A-Wish Foundation.
00;37;47;24 - 00;37;51;04
You know,
they're they're trying to give kids
00;37;51;04 - 00;37;57;05
that are in a very poor health state,
just something
00;37;57;05 - 00;38;02;13
to kind of take their mind off of
them being sick, you know, So
00;38;03;13 - 00;38;03;27
it could
00;38;03;27 - 00;38;06;23
be as simple as going to the movies
one night,
00;38;07;00 - 00;38;10;01
going to an Orioles game,
going to a Ravens game,
00;38;11;12 - 00;38;14;09
maybe if they just need
00;38;14;09 - 00;38;16;11
help in terms of,
00;38;16;11 - 00;38;19;20
you know, clothing or whatever
it might be.
00;38;20;01 - 00;38;23;04
But just really, again, helping
00;38;24;16 - 00;38;28;22
really not only not only the children,
but the families of children
00;38;28;22 - 00;38;31;13
that are just dealing with a lot
00;38;32;03 - 00;38;34;04
of on the health side of things.
00;38;35;04 - 00;38;36;25
Okay. I love that.
00;38;36;25 - 00;38;38;13
We're going to make sure
to get some information
00;38;38;13 - 00;38;40;09
in the show notes about Casey Cares.
00;38;40;09 - 00;38;44;16
So if anybody listening to check them out,
they can do that.
00;38;45;05 - 00;38;47;13
That sounds like a great organization.
00;38;47;13 - 00;38;48;08
Yeah. Yeah.
00;38;48;08 - 00;38;52;25
I mean, and, you know, again,
another cliche phrase is just,
00;38;53;17 - 00;38;58;26
you know, you don't have to be necessarily
doing running like these charity events.
00;38;58;26 - 00;39;04;27
Like, we are just you know,
I kind of put myself down for saying,
00;39;04;27 - 00;39;08;21
oh, I was only giving,
you know, $20 here and there.
00;39;08;21 - 00;39;12;09
But at the end of the day,
00;39;12;09 - 00;39;15;17
you know, everybody's
throwing in ten or 20 bucks
00;39;15;17 - 00;39;18;25
and just chipping in a little bit
really does.
00;39;18;25 - 00;39;22;00
I mean, that
that that makes a world of difference.
00;39;23;20 - 00;39;24;04
You know, I
00;39;24;04 - 00;39;28;24
kind of we kind of went 0 to 100 in terms
of organizing these events.
00;39;28;24 - 00;39;31;02
But, you know, hey, just
00;39;31;09 - 00;39;34;05
finding a charity that you like
and just giving them
00;39;34;05 - 00;39;38;23
a $50 donation two or three times
a year is just huge.
00;39;38;23 - 00;39;40;01
You know, if if
00;39;40;01 - 00;39;43;17
a few hundred people started doing that,
it would make all the difference.
00;39;44;27 - 00;39;46;12
It really would.
00;39;46;27 - 00;39;48;04
I love that idea.
00;39;48;04 - 00;39;50;10
I'm going to go ahead
and make a donation myself.
00;39;51;05 - 00;39;54;18
So yeah, absolutely.
00;39;54;18 - 00;39;56;24
Matt, There's one other thing
00;39;56;28 - 00;40;00;13
that I think I had on my list here
to talk about.
00;40;00;23 - 00;40;05;00
You've done in the past,
I don't know, maybe a year or so.
00;40;05;08 - 00;40;08;22
I work with some other investors
and doing some workshops and
00;40;09;21 - 00;40;12;18
are you still doing those?
00;40;12;18 - 00;40;14;17
I am, yeah. They we
00;40;16;09 - 00;40;19;18
were doing them all on a monthly
basis there.
00;40;19;18 - 00;40;22;25
I think we started,
I want to say April or May and
00;40;24;05 - 00;40;26;26
we I did one for about five or six months
straight.
00;40;27;12 - 00;40;28;19
I like doing them.
00;40;28;19 - 00;40;30;06
It's a real small setting.
00;40;30;06 - 00;40;32;29
It's about five or six people
00;40;34;03 - 00;40;36;11
right here in my office in this room.
00;40;37;00 - 00;40;39;01
So it's actually kind of outgrown
this office.
00;40;39;01 - 00;40;43;26
So my my office is actually
the old conference room.
00;40;44;15 - 00;40;48;15
So but yeah, you know, it's something
00;40;48;15 - 00;40;52;10
that that I do like doing that,
00;40;53;16 - 00;40;56;13
you know,
I kind of do them on a demand basis.
00;40;56;13 - 00;41;01;06
I don't really put a whole lot of time
into marketing outside
00;41;01;06 - 00;41;05;29
of throwing up a Facebook post
every once in a while about them.
00;41;05;29 - 00;41;09;21
I don't really,
you know, market them and kind of
00;41;10;24 - 00;41;11;12
kind of chase
00;41;11;12 - 00;41;14;00
people down to to participate in them.
00;41;14;12 - 00;41;15;19
But yes, I do.
00;41;15;19 - 00;41;18;04
I do offer that.
00;41;18;04 - 00;41;19;23
I'd like to do one in the spring.
00;41;19;23 - 00;41;22;17
We'll kind of see what happens.
We'll see where the demand is.
00;41;22;17 - 00;41;24;18
But it's it's two days.
00;41;24;18 - 00;41;27;00
I kind of just I'm an open book
00;41;27;18 - 00;41;30;28
and I open that that book up,
00;41;30;28 - 00;41;34;01
so to speak, for for two days,
just kind of 9 to 5.
00;41;34;01 - 00;41;38;13
We talk about talk about everything
marketing, acquisitions, construction
00;41;38;13 - 00;41;44;22
rentals, even just general business
mindset and goal setting.
00;41;44;22 - 00;41;48;11
What we actually in on here today as well.
00;41;48;11 - 00;41;52;24
So so yeah, you know, if somebody happens
to have some interest in that,
00;41;52;24 - 00;41;55;27
they can certainly reach out to me
and we could discuss it further.
00;41;56;17 - 00;41;56;26
Great.
00;41;56;26 - 00;42;00;16
Yeah, we'll make sure to get your contact
info in the show notes.
00;42;00;16 - 00;42;01;27
And I've had
00;42;02;28 - 00;42;06;00
to be honest, I think some of the folks
we've had on this podcast
00;42;06;00 - 00;42;09;12
have been in that conference room
with you for your workshops,
00;42;09;12 - 00;42;10;14
and I've heard a lot of great things.
00;42;10;14 - 00;42;14;25
So yeah, if you guys are interested
in that, be sure to reach out to Matt.
00;42;15;21 - 00;42;17;10
It sounds like he's
going to be having more of those,
00;42;17;10 - 00;42;21;02
so, um, Matt,
it was awesome to have you on.
00;42;21;15 - 00;42;26;01
Thank you for taking the time out and,
and talking to us about your story
00;42;26;01 - 00;42;29;26
and for giving back
and sharing that with us too.
00;42;29;26 - 00;42;34;18
I think that's not often talked
about in the real estate world,
00;42;34;18 - 00;42;36;12
and it's something
we could all be doing a little more of.
00;42;36;12 - 00;42;38;09
So thank you for that.
00;42;38;09 - 00;42;39;08
Yeah, not a problem.
00;42;39;08 - 00;42;43;22
Again, I appreciate you having me on
and I'm glad
00;42;43;22 - 00;42;48;07
to link up and jump on and kind of talk
some shop with you.
00;42;48;07 - 00;42;49;20
Yeah, man, it's always good.
00;42;49;20 - 00;42;51;29
Next time I'm in Baltimore,
we have to get together.
00;42;52;05 - 00;42;54;04
Be good to see
you. Absolutely. Let’s do it.
00;42;55;07 - 00;42;57;06
Thanks again, Matt.
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